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Post by Honorebu on May 25, 2017 22:20:37 GMT
Lol.. omohayek I was just joking with those funny names oh. I was actually referring to the Ẹ̀gbá vs Ìjẹ̀bú, Oyo vs Ibadan and the rest of that crap lol As for Kwara, I don't think we should even worry much about them. While I would love them to be part of us and I see them as my siblings, I think that decision should be left for them to make. I understand your concern per the last paragraph. That could be a major headache. But then again, what would they benefit from it when it might even affect them?
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Post by skebe on May 25, 2017 22:23:21 GMT
Spot on! That region is very complex. They appear united cos they are all benefiting from that political unity in Nigeria. Once they are left alone, the intra-ethnic squabble would rear its ugly head and it might even be more devastating than we expect because they are more diverse. The SW isn't guaranteed a roller coaster ride either tbh. Even under a restructured Nigeria, the Jalomi vs Tamodu, Tantala vs Ajani nonsense would start again. But I think our cool-headedness and aversion to violence would make things easier to manage compared to other regions. All the regions are bound to go through that intra-ethnic issue. Actually, I think it says something positive about intra-Yoruba relations today that this is the first time I'm hearing about these conflicts. The old Modakeke vs. Ife strife was the only one I'd heard of in the modern era, and even that should be easily manageable in this day and age. The only real issue I see us having is what to do with the people in Kwara who claim to be "Fulani" even while they, their parents and even grandparents bear Yoruba names, and they have only been able to speak Yoruba for the last 3 or more generations, e.g. the Saraki family. My concern is that such people could potentially become a pro-North fifth column if the Yoruba-majority parts of Kwara was allowed to join the rest of the SW. When it comes to land dispute, it's always a do or die affair. Asides, as Yorubas, we are eternal betrayals, we will do anything for power.
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Post by omohayek on May 25, 2017 22:30:10 GMT
Lol.. omohayek I was just joking with those funny names oh. I actually was referring to the Ẹ̀gbá vs Ìjẹ̀bú Oyo vs Ibadan and the rest of that crap lol As for Kwara, I don't think we should even worry much about them. While I would love them to be part of us and I see them as my siblings, I think that decision should be left for them to make. I understand your concern per the last paragraph. That could be a major headache. But then again, what would they benefit from it when it might even affect them? Damn, you got me with that joke! I was really scratching my head, wondering why I'd never heard of any these groups ... As for that Egba/Ijebu/Ibadan stuff, how much relevance has any of that had in most people's lives since the 1950s or so? Even Awolowo was the product of an Egba/Ijebu marriage, and I've never, ever heard of any such tension in the real world. The only place I ever hear of such squabbling is when traditional rulers like the Alake and the Awujale start their childish quarreling over who has seniority, but who really cares about such nonsense, other than bitter IPOB youth trying to make it seem like we too engage in antics like their "Anambra vs. Imo" rubbish?
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Post by Honorebu on May 25, 2017 22:38:40 GMT
Lol.. omohayek I was just joking with those funny names oh. I actually was referring to the Ẹ̀gbá vs Ìjẹ̀bú Oyo vs Ibadan and the rest of that crap lol As for Kwara, I don't think we should even worry much about them. While I would love them to be part of us and I see them as my siblings, I think that decision should be left for them to make. I understand your concern per the last paragraph. That could be a major headache. But then again, what would they benefit from it when it might even affect them? Damn, you got me with that joke! I was really scratching my head, wondering why I'd never heard of any these groups ... As for that Egba/Ijebu/Ibadan stuff, how much relevance has any of that had in most people's lives since the 1950s or so? Even Awolowo was the product of an Egba/Ijebu marriage, and I've never, ever heard of any such tension in the real world. The only place I ever hear of such squabbling is when traditional rulers like the Alake and the Awujale start their childish quarreling over who has seniority, but who really cares about such nonsense, other than bitter IPOB youth trying to make it seem like we too engage in antics like their "Anambra vs. Imo" rubbish? The rivalry is real oh. No jokes..A lot of people don't realize how real it is until marriage. It's not apparent in Nigeria because there is a common enemy. But when there is no external enemy left, the people begin to fight themselves lol That said, I think that nonsense is with the 50+ generation. I don't think anyone from my generation has time for all that crap so yeah the future looks a bit bright if we don't let that generation take charge of things. But how realistic is that? Let's also not forget the politicians will always find something to divide the people with.
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Post by omohayek on May 25, 2017 22:42:32 GMT
Damn, you got me with that joke! I was really scratching my head, wondering why I'd never heard of any these groups ... As for that Egba/Ijebu/Ibadan stuff, how much relevance has any of that had in most people's lives since the 1950s or so? Even Awolowo was the product of an Egba/Ijebu marriage, and I've never, ever heard of any such tension in the real world. The only place I ever hear of such squabbling is when traditional rulers like the Alake and the Awujale start their childish quarreling over who has seniority, but who really cares about such nonsense, other than bitter IPOB youth trying to make it seem like we too engage in antics like their "Anambra vs. Imo" rubbish? The rivalry is real oh. No jokes..A lot of people don't realize how real it is until marriage. It's not apparent in Nigeria because there is a common enemy. But when there is no external enemy left, the people begin to fight themselves lol That said, I think that nonsense is with the 50+ generation. I don't think anyone from my generation has time for all that crap so yeah the future looks a bit bright if we don't let that generation take charge of things. But how realistic is that? Let's also not forget the politicians will always find something to divide the people with. Like America's "deplorables" vs. "snowflakes"? Sure, politics will always be with us, which means professional dividers will always appear. Still, better that people be divided on such lines rather than origins they can't change, as at least you can change a person's view (not that Trump's idiotic supporters have shown any such capacity for change).
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on May 25, 2017 23:26:25 GMT
Interesting read.
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Post by Her Highness on May 25, 2017 23:28:08 GMT
The rivalry is real oh. No jokes..A lot of people don't realize how real it is until marriage. It's not apparent in Nigeria because there is a common enemy. But when there is no external enemy left, the people begin to fight themselves lol That said, I think that nonsense is with the 50+ generation. I don't think anyone from my generation has time for all that crap so yeah the future looks a bit bright if we don't let that generation take charge of things. But how realistic is that? Let's also not forget the politicians will always find something to divide the people with. Like America's "deplorables" vs. "snowflakes"? Sure, politics will always be with us, which means professional dividers will always appear. Still, better that people be divided on such lines rather than origins they can't change, as at least you can change a person's view ( not that Trump's idiotic supporters have shown any such capacity for change). I swear!! If he shits in front of them, they'll scoop it up and eat it.
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on May 26, 2017 0:57:18 GMT
Part of what we are still saying.
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Post by omohayek on May 31, 2017 19:54:38 GMT
Honorebu , skebe , omohayek , Ogbeni Ogunnaike , Her Highness , Short_Biscuit Returning to the theme with which I began this thread, you may find the following Nairaland thread interesting, as the participants are posing the same sorts of questions to the IPOB dreamers that I was raising back in the beginning: Will Igbos Be Deported From Nigeria If Biafra Is Declared?Not only have Nnamdi Kanu and his clownish followers not bothered to think through boring practicalities such as constitutional arrangements, border arrangements with Nigeria, partition of debts and assets, etc., they haven't even bothered to ask themselves how they can expect to retain access to Nigeria's markets, residence rights in Nigeria, or even rights of ownership over any assets that will remain behind, after they've managed to provoke a bitter divorce that leaves the rest of the country wanting to teach them the harshest possible lesson. The UK has always been a sovereign country, with nuclear weapons and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and yet its withdrawal from the EU is shaping up to be incredibly painful and expensive, likely to cause severe economic damage over the next 30 years. Why then should a landlocked, resource-poor country with terrible roads, which was already massively overcrowded back in 1967 with a much lower population, expect to thrive after separating from people it has disparaged and antagonized for so long? Why should this tiny, overpopulated little state expect to negotiate on terms of equality with others whose hatred and contempt it has earned in the course of its struggle? And even if Nigeria gives them undeservedly generous terms to leave, what will stop Anambrians, Imolites, Abians and all the rest from starting a civil war over where the capital will be, who gets to call the shots, etc? Despite the sheer stupidity and lack of preparation I see the IPOB agitators displaying, I fully support their struggle nonetheless, as I think it will give us a rare opportunity if it succeeds. The reason I care so much about how they're going about it is because I don't want us to make any of the same mistakes they're committing by refusing to face head-on the practical difficulties that will arise, or to make any practical plans rather than simply expecting utopia to arrive on the back of Niger-Delta oil they don't even own. We can't be content with simply fighting e-wars with them on online forums, we have to get back to working on the foundations of what our future state should look like.
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Post by skebe on May 31, 2017 20:13:41 GMT
Honorebu , skebe , omohayek , Ogbeni Ogunnaike , Her Highness , Returning to the theme with which I began this thread, you may find the following Nairaland thread interesting, as the participants are posing the same sorts of questions to the IPOB dreamers that I was raising back in the beginning: Will Igbos Be Deported From Nigeria If Biafra Is Declared?Not only have Nnamdi Kanu and his clownish followers not bothered to think through boring practicalities such as constitutional arrangements, border arrangements with Nigeria, partition of debts and assets, etc., they haven't even bothered to ask themselves how they can expect to retain access to Nigeria's markets, residence rights in Nigeria, or even rights of ownership over any assets that will remain behind, after they've managed to provoke a bitter divorce that leaves the rest of the country wanting to teach them the harshest possible lesson. The UK has always been a sovereign country, with nuclear weapons and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and yet its withdrawal from the EU is shaping up to be incredibly painful and expensive, likely to cause severe economic damage over the next 30 years. Why then should a landlocked, resource-poor country with terrible roads, which was already massively overcrowded back in 1967 with a much lower population, expect to thrive after separating from people it has disparaged and antagonized for so long? Why should this tiny, overpopulated little state expect to negotiate on terms of equality with others whose hatred and contempt it has earned in the course of its struggle? And even if Nigeria gives them undeservedly generous terms to leave, what will stop Anambrians, Imolites, Abians and all the rest from starting a civil war over where the capital will be, who gets to call the shots, etc? Despite the sheer stupidity and lack of preparation I see the IPOB agitators displaying, I fully support their struggle nonetheless, as I think it will give us a rare opportunity if it succeeds. The reason I care so much about how they're going about it is because I don't want us to make any of the same mistakes they're committing by refusing to face head-on the practical difficulties that will arise, or to make any practical plans rather than simply expecting utopia to arrive on the back of Niger-Delta oil they don't even own. We can't be content with simply fighting e-wars with them on online forums, we have to get back to working on the foundations of what our future state should look like. I so much like the last sentence. Quite a number of times, my brother and I discuss, what will become of each major group, should Nigeria break. As Yorubas, let's shift focus away from border, ports and industries in Lagos and Ogun (upcoming), our greatest strength lies in Agriculture, and what are we doing about these. It's high time we face agriculture squarely, laying the groundwork, by ensuring good means of transportation. Our leaders should be looking towards mechanizing farming, so that it will be attractive to youths. There should be several plantation settlements/communities, that will be self contained for livelihood. Our lands have been on bush fallowing for years, let's go back to it, and see how it yields returns in multiple folds. This is what our leaders should be taking loans for.
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Post by Her Highness on May 31, 2017 20:45:59 GMT
Honorebu , skebe , omohayek , Ogbeni Ogunnaike , Her Highness , Returning to the theme with which I began this thread, you may find the following Nairaland thread interesting, as the participants are posing the same sorts of questions to the IPOB dreamers that I was raising back in the beginning: Will Igbos Be Deported From Nigeria If Biafra Is Declared?Not only have Nnamdi Kanu and his clownish followers not bothered to think through boring practicalities such as constitutional arrangements, border arrangements with Nigeria, partition of debts and assets, etc., they haven't even bothered to ask themselves how they can expect to retain access to Nigeria's markets, residence rights in Nigeria, or even rights of ownership over any assets that will remain behind, after they've managed to provoke a bitter divorce that leaves the rest of the country wanting to teach them the harshest possible lesson. The UK has always been a sovereign country, with nuclear weapons and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and yet its withdrawal from the EU is shaping up to be incredibly painful and expensive, likely to cause severe economic damage over the next 30 years. Why then should a landlocked, resource-poor country with terrible roads, which was already massively overcrowded back in 1967 with a much lower population, expect to thrive after separating from people it has disparaged and antagonized for so long? Why should this tiny, overpopulated little state expect to negotiate on terms of equality with others whose hatred and contempt it has earned in the course of its struggle? And even if Nigeria gives them undeservedly generous terms to leave, what will stop Anambrians, Imolites, Abians and all the rest from starting a civil war over where the capital will be, who gets to call the shots, etc? Despite the sheer stupidity and lack of preparation I see the IPOB agitators displaying, I fully support their struggle nonetheless, as I think it will give us a rare opportunity if it succeeds. The reason I care so much about how they're going about it is because I don't want us to make any of the same mistakes they're committing by refusing to face head-on the practical difficulties that will arise, or to make any practical plans rather than simply expecting utopia to arrive on the back of Niger-Delta oil they don't even own. We can't be content with simply fighting e-wars with them on online forums, we have to get back to working on the foundations of what our future state should look like. I know people like Ibos. They plan to play the victim cared to get what they want. Right now, that is working for them. You have bitter political losers using IPOD to fight the present government (i.e FFK/Fayose), jobless vagabonds writing articles speaking against Ibo marginalization, and uselessness clowns claiming that Ibos invest more in Nigeria than other groups etc. Their cries are gaining them sympathy, be it sincere or sneaky sympathy. The point is, once they get their Biafra, their voices will be heard. The word will sympathize with them...for a small time. In that small time, they'll whine for the "properties" they left behind, until we bend for it. I already see how this is gonna play out. Until Yorubas start playing hate with hate, we'll "accommodate" and give in again. As part the red part, we'll all be facing that issue. When Biafra leaves, Yorubas will leave too.....unplanned. If we don't leave right away, we'll get stuck in that shit hole. I don't pray for anything called Nigeria after they they leave. That's why every region needs to address this so that when the separation bell rings, we all hear it.
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Post by Her Highness on May 31, 2017 20:47:02 GMT
I think it's about time the major groups stops shying away from the discussion. We need to address this else we'll all fail.
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Post by Her Highness on May 31, 2017 20:50:03 GMT
Part of what we are still saying. Idiot!!
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Post by omohayek on May 31, 2017 21:02:34 GMT
I know people like Ibos. They plan to play the victim cared to get what they want. Right now, that is working for them. You have bitter political losers using IPOD to fight the present government (i.e FFK/Fayose), jobless vagabonds writing articles speaking against Ibo marginalization, and uselessness clowns claiming that Ibos invest more in Nigeria than other groups etc. Their cries are gaining them sympathy, be it sincere or sneaky sympathy. The point is, once they get their Biafra, their voices will be heard. The word will sympathize with them...for a small time. In that small time, they'll whine for the "properties" they left behind, until we bend for it. I'm not so sure that things will play out quite so nicely for them, however much they whine and play the victim. Even sentimental and kind-hearted people can turn cold as ice once there's money involved, and the expulsion of the Igbos that would follow any realistic Biafran secession would leave huge amounts of "abandoned assets" for grabs by opportunists who won't be interested in any moralizing by outsiders; such pleading didn't work out too well for European Jews who were driven out by the Nazis, and had much stronger moral claims on humanity's sympathy, so why would it work for Biafrans who have done so much to earn our hatred? The only reason the Igbos got their "abandoned properties" in Yorubaland back was because they were actually coming back into the union, and they were lucky to have a principled man like Awolowo to act as their protector - even though they curse the man's name right to this day. No future Yoruba politician will make the same mistake, certainly not for a group which will have no more claims on sharing citizenship with his own people. I don't agree that we're in the same position as the wannabe Biafrans, as the very planning and discussing about what should be in a future state is precisely what we've been up to on here, at least until the place lost some energy over the last few months. Remember all the discussions we've had about transport links, fibre-optics, using universities to create research hubs, educational reforms, etc. The IPOBians have not had any discussions even close to the ones we've had on here, just the same old pipe-dreams about the Biafran utopia that will fall from the sky once the evil "Afonjas" have stopped blocking their progress. On a personal note, I said several months ago that I was working on putting together research on economic growth and comparative economic history, with the intention of contributing essays about what I'd found, and I've kept to my plans. The first essay should show up on here within a week, with several to follow, all thoroughly footnoted with solid references. Even if I never get to be personally involved in a future Yoruba state, I want those who will lead it to be able to simply pick up my writings and go from there, rather than having to fumble in the dark for years after a hasty, unplanned secession.
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on May 31, 2017 21:07:22 GMT
Personally I don't want to be a citizen of Anything called Nigeria , once any part of the country manages to get away.
So, I thin we should be discussing the Igbo remnant problem in context of an independent oodua nation and nothing else.
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