|
Post by Honorebu on May 31, 2017 21:11:21 GMT
Honorebu , skebe , omohayek , Ogbeni Ogunnaike , Her Highness , Short_Biscuit Returning to the theme with which I began this thread, you may find the following Nairaland thread interesting, as the participants are posing the same sorts of questions to the IPOB dreamers that I was raising back in the beginning: Will Igbos Be Deported From Nigeria If Biafra Is Declared?Not only have Nnamdi Kanu and his clownish followers not bothered to think through boring practicalities such as constitutional arrangements, border arrangements with Nigeria, partition of debts and assets, etc., they haven't even bothered to ask themselves how they can expect to retain access to Nigeria's markets, residence rights in Nigeria, or even rights of ownership over any assets that will remain behind, after they've managed to provoke a bitter divorce that leaves the rest of the country wanting to teach them the harshest possible lesson. The UK has always been a sovereign country, with nuclear weapons and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and yet its withdrawal from the EU is shaping up to be incredibly painful and expensive, likely to cause severe economic damage over the next 30 years. Why then should a landlocked, resource-poor country with terrible roads, which was already massively overcrowded back in 1967 with a much lower population, expect to thrive after separating from people it has disparaged and antagonized for so long? Why should this tiny, overpopulated little state expect to negotiate on terms of equality with others whose hatred and contempt it has earned in the course of its struggle? And even if Nigeria gives them undeservedly generous terms to leave, what will stop Anambrians, Imolites, Abians and all the rest from starting a civil war over where the capital will be, who gets to call the shots, etc? Despite the sheer stupidity and lack of preparation I see the IPOB agitators displaying, I fully support their struggle nonetheless, as I think it will give us a rare opportunity if it succeeds. The reason I care so much about how they're going about it is because I don't want us to make any of the same mistakes they're committing by refusing to face head-on the practical difficulties that will arise, or to make any practical plans rather than simply expecting utopia to arrive on the back of Niger-Delta oil they don't even own. We can't be content with simply fighting e-wars with them on online forums, we have to get back to working on the foundations of what our future state should look like. Lol I once asked them to show me their blueprint, they disappeared. Everything is gragra for these clowns. That's why you see them drawing silly maps all over the place. That's all they do. No organization. But then again, ko s'eyi to kan wa For us, I think we have it easier since we don't have many people in other regions and we are geographically advantaged. We'd be least affected of all the ethnic groups i.m.o. We aren't traders that rely on market. Per the emboldened, we have that already designed by DAWN although It was designed from a regionalism POV, not from a secessionist POV. Just few modifications would be needed to take care of that
|
|
|
Post by omohayek on May 31, 2017 21:22:27 GMT
Personally I don't want to be a citizen of Anything called Nigeria , once any part of the country manages to get away. So, I thin we should be discussing the Igbo remnant problem in context of an independent oodua nation and nothing else. I don't want to be part of a "Nigeria" either, and as I've said on here before, in the event of a breakup we would objectively be in the strongest position, as we have the bulk of real (non-oil) economic activity, as well as the busiest air/seaports, the most active borders, etc., all without having to force suspicious minorities to join us. Having said all that, the fact still remains that no breakaway Yoruba state can succeed if it leaves Nigeria in the same manner as the Biafrans, i.e. without having well-thought out plans for dealing with the practicalities of statehood, and waiting until independence is achieved before dealing with such things is asking for South Sudan 2.0. Even if it's just us having discussions without coming to a consensus one way or another, we need to be thinking critically and realistically about all of these issues of governance, education, economics, foreign relations, building a military and so forth, not just dreaming that Trump, the UN or some other group will magically intervene to give us whatever we want. Israel achieved statehood in 1948 only after more than 4 decades of hard practical work, which is why they had an army ready and well organized enough to beat back the 6 Arab armies that declared war on the day the Israelis declared independence, and an already functioning self-governing body that they simply renamed the Knesset after the British handover; without such thorough preparation the Israelis would never have stood a chance. Organization without wealth will take us far, while all the resource wealth in the world without organization is simply a recipe for another DRC/South Sudan scenario of endless warfare.
|
|
|
Post by Her Highness on May 31, 2017 22:52:33 GMT
I know people like Ibos. They plan to play the victim cared to get what they want. Right now, that is working for them. You have bitter political losers using IPOD to fight the present government (i.e FFK/Fayose), jobless vagabonds writing articles speaking against Ibo marginalization, and uselessness clowns claiming that Ibos invest more in Nigeria than other groups etc. Their cries are gaining them sympathy, be it sincere or sneaky sympathy. The point is, once they get their Biafra, their voices will be heard. The word will sympathize with them...for a small time. In that small time, they'll whine for the "properties" they left behind, until we bend for it. I'm not so sure that things will play out quite so nicely for them, however much they whine and play the victim. Even sentimental and kind-hearted people can turn cold as ice once there's money involved, and the expulsion of the Igbos that would follow any realistic Biafran secession would leave huge amounts of "abandoned assets" for grabs by opportunists who won't be interested in any moralizing by outsiders; such pleading didn't work out too well for European Jews who were driven out by the Nazis, and had much stronger moral claims on humanity's sympathy, so why would it work for Biafrans who have done so much to earn our hatred? The only reason the Igbos got their "abandoned properties" in Yorubaland back was because they were actually coming back into the union, and they were lucky to have a principled man like Awolowo to act as their protector - even though they curse the man's name right to this day. No future Yoruba politician will make the same mistake, certainly not for a group which will have no more claims on sharing citizenship with his own people. I don't agree that we're in the same position as the wannabe Biafrans, as the very planning and discussing about what should be in a future state is precisely what we've been up to on here, at least until the place lost some energy over the last few months. Remember all the discussions we've had about transport links, fibre-optics, using universities to create research hubs, educational reforms, etc. The IPOBians have not had any discussions even close to the ones we've had on here, just the same old pipe-dreams about the Biafran utopia that will fall from the sky once the evil "Afonjas" have stopped blocking their progress. On a personal note, I said several months ago that I was working on putting together research on economic growth and comparative economic history, with the intention of contributing essays about what I'd found, and I've kept to my plans. The first essay should show up on here within a week, with several to follow, all thoroughly footnoted with solid references. Even if I never get to be personally involved in a future Yoruba state, I want those who will lead it to be able to simply pick up my writings and go from there, rather than having to fumble in the dark for years after a hasty, unplanned secession. Let's agree to disagree. These roaches are all over the world. All they need to do is to make noise, get sympathy from each country, and protest here and there to get people listen to them. It's our human weakness to sympathize with victims and fight the oppressors. And Ibos are doing a great job belittling and demonizing the Yoruba tribe. They're speaking in one voice against a common enemy. You still don't understand how powerful that is? Incoherent or not, they're painting us as bad as they've painted the Northerners. LOL do you serious think we're not in the same boat? I'm seriously laughing at the bolded... are you serious? What discussion have we had here that is taking shape out there? No offense to anyone here, but I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what needs to be hatched out. i.e Kwara, Kogi. economic factors, etc. What we're doing here is simply beer parlor gist. Until ideas and discussions ricochet across a sizable number of powerful Yoruba people, we're only just mumbling.
|
|
|
Post by skebe on May 31, 2017 22:56:54 GMT
I'm not so sure that things will play out quite so nicely for them, however much they whine and play the victim. Even sentimental and kind-hearted people can turn cold as ice once there's money involved, and the expulsion of the Igbos that would follow any realistic Biafran secession would leave huge amounts of "abandoned assets" for grabs by opportunists who won't be interested in any moralizing by outsiders; such pleading didn't work out too well for European Jews who were driven out by the Nazis, and had much stronger moral claims on humanity's sympathy, so why would it work for Biafrans who have done so much to earn our hatred? The only reason the Igbos got their "abandoned properties" in Yorubaland back was because they were actually coming back into the union, and they were lucky to have a principled man like Awolowo to act as their protector - even though they curse the man's name right to this day. No future Yoruba politician will make the same mistake, certainly not for a group which will have no more claims on sharing citizenship with his own people. I don't agree that we're in the same position as the wannabe Biafrans, as the very planning and discussing about what should be in a future state is precisely what we've been up to on here, at least until the place lost some energy over the last few months. Remember all the discussions we've had about transport links, fibre-optics, using universities to create research hubs, educational reforms, etc. The IPOBians have not had any discussions even close to the ones we've had on here, just the same old pipe-dreams about the Biafran utopia that will fall from the sky once the evil "Afonjas" have stopped blocking their progress. On a personal note, I said several months ago that I was working on putting together research on economic growth and comparative economic history, with the intention of contributing essays about what I'd found, and I've kept to my plans. The first essay should show up on here within a week, with several to follow, all thoroughly footnoted with solid references. Even if I never get to be personally involved in a future Yoruba state, I want those who will lead it to be able to simply pick up my writings and go from there, rather than having to fumble in the dark for years after a hasty, unplanned secession. Let's agree to disagree. These roaches are all over the world. All they need to do is to make noise, get sympathy from each country, and protest here and there to get people listen to them. It's our human weakness to sympathize with victims and fight the oppressors. And Ibos are doing a great job belittling and demonizing the Yoruba tribe. They're speaking in one voice against a common enemy. You still don't understand how powerful that is? Incoherent or not, they're painting us as bad as they've painted the Northerners. LOL do you serious think we're not in the same boat? I'm seriously laughing at the bolded... are you serious? What discussion have we had here that is taking shape out there? No offense to anyone here, but I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what needs to be hatched out. i.e Kwara, Kogi. economic factors, etc. What we're doing here is simply beer parlor gist. Until ideas and discussions ricochet across a sizable number of powerful Yoruba people, we're only just mumbling. Key point.
|
|
|
Post by Her Highness on May 31, 2017 23:02:46 GMT
Personally I don't want to be a citizen of Anything called Nigeria , once any part of the country manages to get away. So, I thin we should be discussing the Igbo remnant problem in context of an independent oodua nation and nothing else. I don't want to be part of a "Nigeria" either, and as I've said on here before, in the event of a breakup we would objectively be in the strongest position, as we have the bulk of real (non-oil) economic activity, as well as the busiest air/seaports, the most active borders, etc., all without having to force suspicious minorities to join us. Having said all that, the fact still remains that no breakaway Yoruba state can succeed if it leaves Nigeria in the same manner as the Biafrans, i.e. without having well-thought out plans for dealing with the practicalities of statehood, and waiting until independence is achieved before dealing with such things is asking for South Sudan 2.0. Even if it's just us having discussions without coming to a consensus one way or another, we need to be thinking critically and realistically about all of these issues of governance, education, economics, foreign relations, building a military and so forth, not just dreaming that Trump, the UN or some other group will magically intervene to give us whatever we want. Israel achieved statehood in 1948 only after more than 4 decades of hard practical work, which is why they had an army ready and well organized enough to beat back the 6 Arab armies that declared war on the day the Israelis declared independence, and an already functioning self-governing body that they simply renamed the Knesset after the British handover; without such thorough preparation the Israelis would never have stood a chance. Organization without wealth will take us far, while all the resource wealth in the world without organization is simply a recipe for another DRC/South Sudan scenario of endless warfare. This is my point. This is why I'm saying that we're on the same boat with those flatheads until we start thinking of secession. Unfortunately, that's a conversation Yorubas aren't having because we're a cursed tribe. We keep thinking this ish won't happen, forgetting that a goat forced against a wall will fight back. Nigeria WILL break up. Immediate short-term problems Yorubas need to discuss 1. Leadership roles to initiate all the boring politics 2. Deportation - how to we deport Biafrans, SSners, Northerners and other foreigners without bloodshed? 3. Investments - How will a stable country hold on to its foreign investments 4. Survival - How do we plan to survive the first few decades, with what economical resources? 5. Immediate security - protecting our borders and citizens from all enemies during separation 6. International travels - Passport/Visa system during this period 7. Foreign relationships I'm sure there are many more, but for now, this is all I can think of.
|
|
|
Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Jun 1, 2017 1:22:54 GMT
Honorebu , skebe , omohayek , Ogbeni Ogunnaike , Her Highness , Short_Biscuit Returning to the theme with which I began this thread, you may find the following Nairaland thread interesting, as the participants are posing the same sorts of questions to the IPOB dreamers that I was raising back in the beginning: Will Igbos Be Deported From Nigeria If Biafra Is Declared?Not only have Nnamdi Kanu and his clownish followers not bothered to think through boring practicalities such as constitutional arrangements, border arrangements with Nigeria, partition of debts and assets, etc., they haven't even bothered to ask themselves how they can expect to retain access to Nigeria's markets, residence rights in Nigeria, or even rights of ownership over any assets that will remain behind, after they've managed to provoke a bitter divorce that leaves the rest of the country wanting to teach them the harshest possible lesson. The UK has always been a sovereign country, with nuclear weapons and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and yet its withdrawal from the EU is shaping up to be incredibly painful and expensive, likely to cause severe economic damage over the next 30 years. Why then should a landlocked, resource-poor country with terrible roads, which was already massively overcrowded back in 1967 with a much lower population, expect to thrive after separating from people it has disparaged and antagonized for so long? Why should this tiny, overpopulated little state expect to negotiate on terms of equality with others whose hatred and contempt it has earned in the course of its struggle? And even if Nigeria gives them undeservedly generous terms to leave, what will stop Anambrians, Imolites, Abians and all the rest from starting a civil war over where the capital will be, who gets to call the shots, etc? Despite the sheer stupidity and lack of preparation I see the IPOB agitators displaying, I fully support their struggle nonetheless, as I think it will give us a rare opportunity if it succeeds. The reason I care so much about how they're going about it is because I don't want us to make any of the same mistakes they're committing by refusing to face head-on the practical difficulties that will arise, or to make any practical plans rather than simply expecting utopia to arrive on the back of Niger-Delta oil they don't even own. We can't be content with simply fighting e-wars with them on online forums, we have to get back to working on the foundations of what our future state should look like. Lol I once asked them to show me their blueprint, they disappeared. Everything is gragra for these clowns. That's why you see them drawing silly maps all over the place. That's all they do. No organization. But then again, ko s'eyi to kan wa For us, I think we have it easier since we don't have many people in other regions and we are geographically advantaged. We'd be least affected of all the ethnic groups i.m.o. We aren't traders that rely on market. Per the emboldened, we have that already designed by DAWN although It was designed from a regionalism POV, not from a secessionist POV. Just few modifications would be needed to take care of that Yoruba plenty for North. And are sizeable in Edo, Delta and Rivers.
|
|
|
Post by Honorebu on Sept 12, 2017 22:30:17 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Belmot on Sept 12, 2017 23:00:32 GMT
Me no even care about all these ipob-NA-Hausa shenanigans lol. More investments and capital projects in the SW is all I ask for honey 😘😘 And make nobody bring all that bullshit come SW all in the name of wanting restructuring or partitioning. We aren't sacrificing a single Yoruba soul. Ipob want to sacrifice for us. We are amala-eating cowards 😘😘 Those Ipod mumus are scared of what the army might do to them oo. They want to cripple the entire economy of the east so that there sufferings will tripple.
|
|
|
Post by omoolowu on Sept 13, 2017 2:52:10 GMT
Me no even care about all these ipob-NA-Hausa shenanigans lol. More investments and capital projects in the SW is all I ask for honey 😘😘 And make nobody bring all that bullshit come SW all in the name of wanting restructuring or partitioning. We aren't sacrificing a single Yoruba soul. Ipob want to sacrifice for us. We are amala-eating cowards 😘😘 Lmao.. . Shit is getting real in the country right now. . But that buhari sef na olodo.
|
|
|
Post by Honorebu on Sept 13, 2017 8:59:07 GMT
Me no even care about all these ipob-NA-Hausa shenanigans lol. More investments and capital projects in the SW is all I ask for honey 😘😘 And make nobody bring all that bullshit come SW all in the name of wanting restructuring or partitioning. We aren't sacrificing a single Yoruba soul. Ipob want to sacrifice for us. We are amala-eating cowards 😘😘 Lmao.. . Shit is getting real in the country right now. . But that buhari sef na olodo. The guy no get sense. What's the point of sending soldiers cos people are agitating. Will all these quell agitations or create more sympathizers? Common sense is not really common
|
|
|
Post by Honorebu on Sept 13, 2017 13:30:47 GMT
It's not surprising that states like Kaduna, Edo, Kebbi and Akwa Ibom are getting more local and foreign investments than all SE states
BUA commissioned a big ass cement plant in Edo state last month. Osinbajo commissioned a fertilizer factory in Edo state on the same day
A multi-billion Naira Wacot Rice Mill was commissioned in Argungu, Kebbi State like 3 weeks ago
Yesterday, the OLAM $150 million integrated feed mill, breeding farm, and hatchery was commissioned in Kaduna
Last week, a N500m food processing factory was commissioned in Jigawa
Dangote is already planning to build a ($450m) sugar factory in Niger state
Mind you, these are all landlocked states that don't even have as much human resources as SE states
That's what you get for being senseless
|
|
|
Post by Honorebu on Sept 14, 2017 15:17:22 GMT
Amidst this whole IPOB-NA madness, Yorubas have been the loudest parrots concerning this matter even more than Hausas. On Twitter/Nairaland. What's wrong with us sef
Wetin concern us. Later, if they call us out, we'll start forming neutrality
Why can't we just mind our business. Smh
|
|
|
Post by omohayek on Sept 14, 2017 20:09:00 GMT
Amidst this whole IPOB-NA madness, Yorubas have been the loudest parrots concerning this matter even more than Hausas. On Twitter/Nairaland. What's wrong with us sef Wetin concern us. Later, if they call us out, we'll start forming neutrality Why can't we just mind our business. Smh The trouble with so many of us is that unlike the others, who spout fine sounding principles only when it suits their selfish purposes, we actually take all the high-falutin' ideals seriously. On the one hand, that's why we are the ones who produce the Felas, the Soyinkas, the Solarins, the Falanas and all the other types who stand up for the rights of others even at grave personal risk, while Charlie Boy is mocked and jeered at by his own people because of his "Our Mumu Done Do" campaign. On the other hand, this very same idealistic tendency means many of us aren't capable of the ruthless selfishness required to promote our own agenda, so we stick our noses in things that don't concern us, on behalf of people who hate us, all in the name of "principle".
|
|
|
Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Sept 14, 2017 21:18:33 GMT
Amidst this whole IPOB-NA madness, Yorubas have been the loudest parrots concerning this matter even more than Hausas. On Twitter/Nairaland. What's wrong with us sef Wetin concern us. Later, if they call us out, we'll start forming neutrality Why can't we just mind our business. Smh I was just thinking 🤔 about this a minute ago as well. Yorubas have been vocal everywhere o! Facebook pages, Twitter, NL everywhere. The thing come be like say all of a sudden they all emerged from wherever it is that they have all been hiding all this while, and something somehow has now enpowered all of them to start ranting about an issue that isn't a quarter their goddamn business. 🙄🙄🙄 .
|
|
|
Post by Honorebu on Sept 14, 2017 23:15:19 GMT
Amidst this whole IPOB-NA madness, Yorubas have been the loudest parrots concerning this matter even more than Hausas. On Twitter/Nairaland. What's wrong with us sef Wetin concern us. Later, if they call us out, we'll start forming neutrality Why can't we just mind our business. Smh The trouble with so many of us is that unlike the others, who spout fine sounding principles only when it suits their selfish purposes, we actually take all the high-falutin' ideals seriously. On the one hand, that's why we are the ones who produce the Felas, the Soyinkas, the Solarins, the Falanas and all the other types who stand up for the rights of others even at grave personal risk, while Charlie Boy is mocked and jeered at by his own people because of his "Our Mumu Done Do" campaign. On the other hand, this very same idealistic tendency means many of us aren't capable of the ruthless selfishness required to promote our own agenda, so we stick our noses in things that don't concern us, on behalf of people who hate us, all in the name of "principle". But if it's all about principles, how come most Yorubas I see posting about this issue have been fully in support of NA occupation of the East. Shouldn't it be the opposite?
|
|