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Post by Honorebu on Jul 24, 2017 13:48:20 GMT
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Post by Honorebu on Jul 24, 2017 13:49:05 GMT
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Post by Honorebu on Jul 24, 2017 13:50:22 GMT
Wow......this is so shocking   |
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Post by omohayek on Jul 24, 2017 17:46:14 GMT
I know it's tempting to say that these results are due entirely to "miracle centers", but I think that is just encouraging complacency, and it would be better to seriously consider the possibility that - We are seeing evidence of a real achievement gap opening up, not just here but even at the university level (e.g. on that Covenant University thread on Nairaland), and
- It is not due to any difference in value systems or respect for education, but to systemic problems with public education that are being better addressed in the SE.
With regards to point 1, let me say that while I applaud the efforts of all the posters who tried to provide a more balanced view of things at Covenant, it was still striking that Igbos should have been roughly 50% of the 1st class degree recipients in a SW institution which one would expect to have a predominantly Yoruba student body. That may not be the "domination" that they were beating their chests about, but it is still quite disproportionate. I think all of these phenomena can be explained by a major policy difference between the SW and the SE: most of the latter have handed back control of the old missionary schools to their original owners. Additional support for this is the fact that the only SW state to make it into the top 10 happens to be Lagos, where Tinubu also did the same thing (despite being a Muslim himself). Missionaries who feel impelled by religious duty to seriously educate their wards, and aren't just lazy, unqualified government employees who may not even be able to read, will obviously do a much better job of teaching their students, and I think we are now seeing the legacy of this difference feeding through in exam results. We can either continue to console ourselves with tales of "miracle centers" and the like, or we can sit up and realize that our own secondary educational system is in need of a radical overhaul. |
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Post by Honorebu on Jul 24, 2017 18:22:53 GMT
I know it's tempting to say that these results are due entirely to "miracle centers", but I think that is just encouraging complacency, and it would be better to seriously consider the possibility that - We are seeing evidence of a real achievement gap opening up, not just here but even at the university level (e.g. on that Covenant University thread on Nairaland), and
- It is not due to any difference in value systems or respect for education, but to systemic problems with public education that are being better addressed in the SE.
With regards to point 1, let me say that while I applaud the efforts of all the posters who tried to provide a more balanced view of things at Covenant, it was still striking that Igbos should have been roughly 50% of the 1st class degree recipients in a SW institution which one would expect to have a predominantly Yoruba student body. That may not be the "domination" that they were beating their chests about, but it is still quite disproportionate. I think all of these phenomena can be explained by a major policy difference between the SW and the SE: most of the latter have handed back control of the old missionary schools to their original owners. Additional support for this is the fact that the only SW state to make it into the top 10 happens to be Lagos, where Tinubu also did the same thing (despite being a Muslim himself). Missionaries who feel impelled by religious duty to seriously educate their wards, and aren't just lazy, unqualified government employees who may not even be able to read, will obviously do a much better job of teaching their students, and I think we are now seeing the legacy of this difference feeding through in exam results. We can either continue to console ourselves with tales of "miracle centers" and the like, or we can sit up and realize that our own secondary educational system is in need of a radical overhaul. + Me thinks there is a bigger problem somewhere. I don't want to believe all the states in the top 10 have most of their schools managed by religious organisations. I mean, how do we explain Taraba coming ahead of other 5 SW states ? Lagos has been on that 7th position since God knows when. No progress I agree with you 100% that the "miracle centre" argument is stale |
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Post by Honorebu on Jul 24, 2017 18:35:16 GMT
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Post by omohayek on Jul 24, 2017 18:36:28 GMT
I know it's tempting to say that these results are due entirely to "miracle centers", but I think that is just encouraging complacency, and it would be better to seriously consider the possibility that - We are seeing evidence of a real achievement gap opening up, not just here but even at the university level (e.g. on that Covenant University thread on Nairaland), and
- It is not due to any difference in value systems or respect for education, but to systemic problems with public education that are being better addressed in the SE.
With regards to point 1, let me say that while I applaud the efforts of all the posters who tried to provide a more balanced view of things at Covenant, it was still striking that Igbos should have been roughly 50% of the 1st class degree recipients in a SW institution which one would expect to have a predominantly Yoruba student body. That may not be the "domination" that they were beating their chests about, but it is still quite disproportionate. I think all of these phenomena can be explained by a major policy difference between the SW and the SE: most of the latter have handed back control of the old missionary schools to their original owners. Additional support for this is the fact that the only SW state to make it into the top 10 happens to be Lagos, where Tinubu also did the same thing (despite being a Muslim himself). Missionaries who feel impelled by religious duty to seriously educate their wards, and aren't just lazy, unqualified government employees who may not even be able to read, will obviously do a much better job of teaching their students, and I think we are now seeing the legacy of this difference feeding through in exam results. We can either continue to console ourselves with tales of "miracle centers" and the like, or we can sit up and realize that our own secondary educational system is in need of a radical overhaul. + Me thinks there is a bigger problem somewhere. I don't want to believe all the states in the top 10 have most of her schools managed by religious organisations. I mean, how do we explain Taraba coming ahead of other 5 SW states ? Lagos has been on that 7th position since God knows when. No progress I agree with you 100% that the "miracle centre" argument is stale I don't think schools run by religious organizations are the sole way forward, just that they provide a tangible, credible reason why we have this gap between the SE and the SW, ignoring all the other parts of the country. As a matter of fact, I think implementing school choice based on vouchers, and removing all the teachers from the government payroll (so the good ones can be better rewarded while the lazy and incompetent are fired), would probably be even more effective if a proper monitoring system were put in place. I don't know what's going on in Taraba, but I have to say that the rate at which at least a few of the northern states are coming up in the educational rankings is quite noticeable, and at the rate things are going they will have entirely closed the gap within 20 years or so. This is less an indicator of how wonderful they are doing, and more about how poorly most of our own governors are handling education as a whole; just look at the ongoing drama about the closure of Lautech, which would never have happened if Ajimobi and Aregbesola were as serious about education as they should be. |
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Post by Honorebu on Jul 24, 2017 18:49:47 GMT
Me thinks there is a bigger problem somewhere. I don't want to believe all the states in the top 10 have most of her schools managed by religious organisations. I mean, how do we explain Taraba coming ahead of other 5 SW states ? Lagos has been on that 7th position since God knows when. No progress I agree with you 100% that the "miracle centre" argument is stale I don't think schools run by religious organizations are the sole way forward, just that they provide a tangible, credible reason why we have this gap between the SE and the SW, ignoring all the other parts of the country. As a matter of fact, I think implementing school choice based on vouchers, and removing all the teachers from the government payroll (so the good ones can be better rewarded while the lazy and incompetent are fired), would probably be even more effective if a proper monitoring system were put in place. I don't know what's going on in Taraba, but I have to say that the rate at which at least a few of the northern states are coming up in the educational rankings is quite noticeable, and at the rate things are going they will have entirely closed the gap within 20 years or so. This is less an indicator of how wonderful they are doing, and more about how poorly most of our own governors are handling education as a whole; just look at the ongoing drama about the closure of Lautech, which would never have happened if Ajimobi and Aregbesola were as serious about education as they should be.. Hmm..Abeg elucidate on the emboldened? Per Northern states, I thought I was the only one who noticed it. Our governors have had countless number of education summits and meetings with DAWN, yet, we still haven't made any progress. All we hear at the end of the meetings is resolution this resolution that What do those clowns even discuss in those meetings? |
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Post by omohayek on Jul 24, 2017 18:56:17 GMT
I don't think schools run by religious organizations are the sole way forward, just that they provide a tangible, credible reason why we have this gap between the SE and the SW, ignoring all the other parts of the country. As a matter of fact, I think implementing school choice based on vouchers, and removing all the teachers from the government payroll (so the good ones can be better rewarded while the lazy and incompetent are fired), would probably be even more effective if a proper monitoring system were put in place. I don't know what's going on in Taraba, but I have to say that the rate at which at least a few of the northern states are coming up in the educational rankings is quite noticeable, and at the rate things are going they will have entirely closed the gap within 20 years or so. This is less an indicator of how wonderful they are doing, and more about how poorly most of our own governors are handling education as a whole; just look at the ongoing drama about the closure of Lautech, which would never have happened if Ajimobi and Aregbesola were as serious about education as they should be.. Per Northern states, I thought I was the only one who noticed it. Our governors have had countless number of education summits and meetings with DAWN, yet, we still haven't made any progress. All we hear at the end of the meetings is resolution this resolution that What do those clowns even discuss in those meetings? It's just the same thing I've mentioned on here in the past: instead of having the state governments fund schools directly, they can allocate vouchers to parents for each child, and enlisting a child at any of the acceptable schools will allow that school to redeem the child's voucher as payment from the government. This allows the state government to offload all the hassle of building maintenance and recruiting/paying teachers to the schools, which as private bodies (whether charitable or for-profit) will have much stronger incentives to reward talent and effort, and much more freedom to get rid of deadwood; people with their own money on the line won't take on illiterates and layabouts as teachers simply because they're related to somebody or are political supporters of someone. |
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Jul 25, 2017 10:09:14 GMT
I know it's tempting to say that these results are due entirely to "miracle centers", but I think that is just encouraging complacency, and it would be better to seriously consider the possibility that - We are seeing evidence of a real achievement gap opening up, not just here but even at the university level (e.g. on that Covenant University thread on Nairaland), and
- It is not due to any difference in value systems or respect for education, but to systemic problems with public education that are being better addressed in the SE.
With regards to point 1, let me say that while I applaud the efforts of all the posters who tried to provide a more balanced view of things at Covenant, it was still striking that Igbos should have been roughly 50% of the 1st class degree recipients in a SW institution which one would expect to have a predominantly Yoruba student body. That may not be the "domination" that they were beating their chests about, but it is still quite disproportionate. I think all of these phenomena can be explained by a major policy difference between the SW and the SE: most of the latter have handed back control of the old missionary schools to their original owners. Additional support for this is the fact that the only SW state to make it into the top 10 happens to be Lagos, where Tinubu also did the same thing (despite being a Muslim himself). Missionaries who feel impelled by religious duty to seriously educate their wards, and aren't just lazy, unqualified government employees who may not even be able to read, will obviously do a much better job of teaching their students, and I think we are now seeing the legacy of this difference feeding through in exam results. We can either continue to console ourselves with tales of "miracle centers" and the like, or we can sit up and realize that our own secondary educational system is in need of a radical overhaul. This is the 2016 list of first class students of covenant university Elect Elect department (the department which much fuss was made about on NL because it had 11 Igbos out of 20 first clas students)  ^^ Same department, last year convocation list. Yorubas i.m.o are still dominant in all the private universities in the west. I think it just happens that particular department and maybe the tech departments in general had a higher percentage/incidence of students of Eastern origin this year, which shouldn't be troubling. The school has a multiethnic student pool you know, and Living faith is VERY popular in the SE, SS and NC. in 2016 Yorubas had 14 possibly 15 of the 20 first class students in that department. That is a 70 to75% dominance rate in a multiethnic school. Yet no one made a fuss about it on NL. I think Yorubas are doing well in that arena. The problem now being that we see as Yorubas our dominance on such lists or in other aspects of life as Normal, hence we don't feel the need to brag o top such issues. But The Igbos ... I don't know, its like they always watch out for these kind of things, i.e any slight opportunity to prove points. Wht I have learnt from all these is that many of the things Yorubas take for granted or seen as the norm is either really being covered or seen as a big deal in other parts of the country. |
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Jul 25, 2017 10:19:41 GMT
With all due respect to WAEC I don't think I can take them seriously anymore these days. Something is obviously wrong either with their marking arrangement or there are extremely high rates of malpractice in some of these states something. There is no way in hell Taraba is up there. Taraba is worse than Benue, Kwara or Kogi in Education, so how exactly did it make it? Bayelsa is classed as an educationally disadvantaged state, yet it is 5th out of 37 in the country? Something is OBVIOUSLY WRONG. Consider the fact that in NECO, whose marking scheme and standards are considered to be much stricter than WAEC's, Ekiti led the federation last year, but was owhere on the list of top states that same year. Isn't that signalling something? |
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Jul 25, 2017 10:33:49 GMT
I know it's tempting to say that these results are due entirely to "miracle centers", but I think that is just encouraging complacency, and it would be better to seriously consider the possibility that - We are seeing evidence of a real achievement gap opening up, not just here but even at the university level (e.g. on that Covenant University thread on Nairaland), and
- It is not due to any difference in value systems or respect for education, but to systemic problems with public education that are being better addressed in the SE.
With regards to point 1, let me say that while I applaud the efforts of all the posters who tried to provide a more balanced view of things at Covenant, i t was still striking that Igbos should have been roughly 50% of the 1st class degree recipients in a SW institution which one would expect to have a predominantly Yoruba student body. That may not be the "domination" that they were beating their chests about, but it is still quite disproportionate. I don't want to be seen as making excuses for yorubas, but in a clarity, Covenant university is owned y Yorubas but is not a "Yoruba institution" because there is an equal chance for admission to everyone that applies from anywhere in the country, as long as you have your money and whatever requirement it is that they use. It is a private christian university campus belonging to a church like Winners that though is popular in the west is also quite popular in other parts of the country, most especially the east and south. Secondly, majority of the Yorubas there enrolled are christians, don't forget that. Probably to the tune of 95% of the Yorubas in that school will be christian, what that means is that we are only represented at a 50% strength in that school. I don't want to believe that the islamic segment of our population is underperforming , or significantly less into education as the Christians are, until something substantive and defining shows me beyond reasonable doubt. cc@Owoblow, what do you think? |
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Post by Honorebu on Jul 25, 2017 12:52:49 GMT
omohayek Ogbeni Ogunnaike WAEC denied releasing any list on their Twitter account yesterday. I wonder where these bastard news sites got their list from. It was all over the place Thanks omoolowu
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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Jul 25, 2017 12:59:41 GMT
Nigerian news websites have all become propaganda outlets. Its a pity really. The think the way of battling the so called "Yoruba dominance" of media is by churning half truths and complete lies for their multitude of people who want to hear just those. That being said, I still wouldn't be surprised if Yoruba states performed woefully still.  |
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Post by Short_Biscuit on Jul 25, 2017 17:37:45 GMT
I know it's tempting to say that these results are due entirely to "miracle centers", but I think that is just encouraging complacency, and it would be better to seriously consider the possibility that - We are seeing evidence of a real achievement gap opening up, not just here but even at the university level (e.g. on that Covenant University thread on Nairaland), and
- It is not due to any difference in value systems or respect for education, but to systemic problems with public education that are being better addressed in the SE.
With regards to point 1, let me say that while I applaud the efforts of all the posters who tried to provide a more balanced view of things at Covenant, i t was still striking that Igbos should have been roughly 50% of the 1st class degree recipients in a SW institution which one would expect to have a predominantly Yoruba student body. That may not be the "domination" that they were beating their chests about, but it is still quite disproportionate. I don't want to be seen as making excuses for yorubas, but in a clarity, Covenant university is owned y Yorubas but is not a "Yoruba institution" because there is an equal chance for admission to everyone that applies from anywhere in the country, as long as you have your money and whatever requirement it is that they use. It is a private christian university campus belonging to a church like Winners that though is popular in the west is also quite popular in other parts of the country, most especially the east and south. Secondly, majority of the Yorubas there enrolled are christians, don't forget that. Probably to the tune of 95% of the Yorubas in that school will be christian, what that means is that we are only represented at a 50% strength in that school. I don't want to believe that the islamic segment of our population is underperforming , or significantly less into education as the Christians are, until something substantive and defining shows me beyond reasonable doubt. cc@Owoblow, what do you think? I am inclined to agree with your position, considering the important perspective you touched on about Covenant University being a Christian-leaning University. Oyedepo is an unapologetic Islamophobe, and is actually on record for having denied Muslim Yoruba students admission into his University -- the following episode is an instructive case in point: www.nairaland.com/771573/muslim-students-denied-admission-oyedepos . Therefore the institution under-represents a huge segment of the Yoruba society (Yoruba muslims) and can't be a credible enough Yardstick for measuring a decline in Yoruba students academic excellence relative to their Igbo counterparts, even if such actually exists. His (Oyedepo's) blatant policy of excluding Yoruba Muslims (who constitute close to half of Yoruba population in Nigeria) who are willing to give their wards a quality education without compromising their religious beliefs, is partly responsible for the increasing popularity of Yoruba-muslims established Universities like Crescent Uni, Fountain Uni, Al-Hikmah Uni and their likes among the Yoruba muslim community. Since Covenant University is an 'equal opportunity' institution for professing christians, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Igbo (who are predominantly christians) and other professing christians across Nigeria would be competing with just a fraction of Yorubas at the institution. I am still yet to be convinced that Igbos are producing better students than Yorubas for several reasons, in spite of recent media reports suggesting such a trend. Igbos are known to have a 'win/succeed-at-all-cost' competitive mentality that is evident in every facet of their society. I'm not saying Yorubas are relatively 'saints', no. But we generally don't share their level of desperation in this regard and in our worldview. This becomes an important factor when we consider the amount of cases of exam malpractise emanating from their region compared to other regions. When I look at the number of students from Imo that apply for Jamb (upwards of at least a 100,000) for instance, compared to the actual admission rates (24%), I'm certainly not convinced of anything special about their academic performance. One can observe a similar pattern in the admission rates across their region, compared to the SW. A breakdown of the data (below) shows that they actually have more of their wards applying for these exams in some instances, but their admission rates are lower compared to the SWerners, and overall, we still have more students getting ADMITTED than they do. Credit: YonkijiSappo    When I read about 486 WAEC/NECO magic centres being shut down in Anambra (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/07/anambra-close-486-centres-exam-magic/ ), or about Abia and the SE leading in the number of incidences of exam malpractice during the last JAMB CBT Exams, I see a consistent pattern of behaviour that discredits any argument of their being better academic achievers relative to our students. I'm just not convinced, and this is me being objective. They are ambitious quite alright, but can be very crooked/dishonest in their methods of achieving results in order to gain an advantage over others -- and history supports this. dailypost.ng/2017/06/20/reuben-abati-jamb-2017-matters-arising/Cc: Honorebu , omohayek , omoolowu |
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