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Post by Ogbeni Ogunnaike on Feb 11, 2016 12:53:46 GMT
Yoruba or "Yoruba-like" ancestry? The genetic research was not deep enough to separate all the different African groups that share a very similar genetic makeup to the Yoruba ethnic group As far as slave import data tells, only the Louisiana/Mississippi (?) had significant slave imports from the bight of Benin
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Post by Shymmex on Feb 11, 2016 12:59:07 GMT
IrekeOnibudo, Do you know that the DNA testing of Ramesses III, the one they based the story of Biblical Moses on, has the same DNA as present day West Africans, including Yorubas?
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Post by Shymmex on Feb 11, 2016 13:13:42 GMT
I read everything. However, I honestly don't think the genetic markers that tagged Yorubas as being very similar to Igbos as conclusive, since they never alluded to the sample data they used and the part of Igboland they obtained from. DNA samples of Igbos from the Anambra axis would most likely be similar to Yorubas, due to the migration pattern of Onitsha and the Omanbala river area. The average Onitsha person would be genetically more related to Bini/Yoruba for example, than an Ngwa or Aro Igbo. While those from the Omanbala river axis, with claims to Nri, are mostly Igala people, who overtime became Igbos. And Igalas are similar to Yorubas, both linguistically and genetically. Also, have you taken time out to study the haplogroup E-V38? If you've, why do Igbos have almost the percentage of occurrence of E1b1a1a1f1a (YCC E1b1a7) defined by marker M191/P86, similar of Annang, Efik, and Ibibio - while Yorubas are E1b1a1a1f1a1 (YCC E1b1a7a) defined by marker P252/U174? Anyway, I've read the proper research paper for the publication, and it's flawed. It basically just grouped all the folks that aren't from Senegambia in West Africa, under the Yoruba marker. They could be Fon, Akan, or just any group. However, the only reason why I got carried away is cos I saw something in an article posted by the slave project a few years ago and it stated something similar. Also, there tends to be a disproportionate way in which most of the AAs doing DNA tests always end up having Yoruba ancestry. Just from the naming of the E1b1a1a1f1a and E1b1a1a1f1a1 haplogroups, it's clear that E1b1a7a is a subgroup of E1b1a7, and given that its age is supposedly only 4,200 years, that seems perfectly in keeping with what we'd expect given what the archaeological and linguistic evidence suggests: that Igbos are "older" as a distinct ethnic grouping than Yorubas are. In less sensational language, the ancestral populations of at least some of today's Igbos were the first members of the stem YEAI population to start migrating southwards, while Yorubas and Igalas were probably the last to begin expanding from the home area of the Niger-Benue confluence. In any case, even this Y-chromosome data exaggerates the genetic divergence between Igbo and Yoruba populations, given the reality of polygamy common to all southern Nigerian populations. If you want to see just how genetically similar the two groups are across all markers including autosomal ones, you can look through the supplementary information linked at the bottom of this paper - any difference found in gene frequencies is so small as to be attributable entirely to sampling error. On a related note, I'm currently reading Bolaji Aremo's "How Yoruba and Igbo Became Different Languages", and it's quite fascinating just how similar so much of the core vocabulary between the languages - and in particular, how much more similar Central and South-East Yoruba versions of words are to their Igbo equivalents. It's common knowledge that "Standard" (North-West) Yoruba has the most linguistic innovations, but just how radically it's changed doesn't become obvious until one starts to see dialectical variations of terms and even full phrases that are considered archaic in Standard Yoruba, and yet which survive intact in Igbo dialects. Similarly, on the Igbo side, the linguistic influence of contact with the Cross-River and proto-Bantu populations is obvious, explaining the emergence of sounds like "mm" (e.g. "mmiri" for "omi"). As far as I can see, the cultural and linguistic impact of these groups on the Igbo is much stronger than any genetic impact they might have had. I would've accepted your argument if Igbos had been at least 90% E1b1a1a1f1a. However, they're just about 54% E1b1a1a1f1a, with other admixtures. While Yorubas are about 97% E1b1a1a1f1a1. Once you use that premise, you'd see that the similarities between the two groups are somewhat overblown. Are there large population of Igbos with the same direct ancestor as the Yorubas? - absolutely yes. But that doesn't negate the distinct admixture between the two groups, hence we need to be very careful. Personally, I'd accept that majority of Western Igbos are genetically similar to Yorubas, due to Igala and Bini admixture. However, the argument for Eastern, and Southern is much more complicated due to the Bantu influence from that axis. Also, we can't use linguistics as a premise since language can be influenced overtime. And what makes it dicey is cos Igbo never had an intelligible language till it was codified by Ajayi Crowther. Furthermore, I think the reason why certain Yoruba phrases survived in Igbo dialect has more to do with the Igala influence. You can look at names like "Onoja", and "Olisa" which exist in Ijebu/Igala and also among Western Igbos like Anambra of Nri ancestry. I'm sure you know that Igala is a Yoruboid language.
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